Tuesday, December 7, 2010
Around the Country Shower - Jackson, MS
I am trying not to be too slow in posting these, but it does get hectic! This post is coming to you all from Jackson, MS from Laura and David Burt! They sent us the cute hooded baby towels (that match Holly and Alex's baby wash cloths), a safety outlet cover/cord shortener, safety tweezers/clippers, the snot sucker (it may have a formal name, but I know it as the thing every baby needs but HATES!!) and of course MISSISSIPPI STATE SOCKS!! They are so tiny and adorable, and he will definitely be wearing them home from the hospital. We have to let everyone here in Baton Rouge know where his allegiance lies! We'll need to get him a cute little Mississippi State cap to match it. :)
Thank you so much David and Laura! We appreciate you guys thinking of us now, we are feeling very loved. You guys are all fantastic. I am attaching a super cute picture of them from our rehearsal dinner. :) It's amazing at how time flies!
Wednesday, November 24, 2010
Around the Country Baby Shower - Lake Jackson, TX
We also have a new entry for our baby shower - from Lake Jackson, TX. The gift is from Lauren and Thomas Welch! They gave baby Graves (Preston, maybe? We are still thinking!) some great baby books. The Very Hungry Caterpillar has always been one of my favorites, and one I love to give to others expecting babies. They also gave us 2 Dr. Seuss books, There's a Wocket in my Pocket and just in time for Christmas - How the Grinch Stole Christmas! Thank you guys both so much!!
Monday, November 22, 2010
Around the Country Shower - Huntsville, AL
I am the giant woman behind the cute baby stuff!! Anyone else notice how small I am making that Christmas Tree look? I am going to be outrageously huge before this is finished! And here is the sweet couple that sent the gift!
Thank you so much to the Allens!!
Sunday, November 14, 2010
Around the Country Baby Shower
This is the gift we received from Darcy and Daren Keel! It is a super cute diaper bag and a pacifier pod. The pacifier pod is something I can hook on to my purse so I always have a separate clean place for the pacifiers. The things you have to think about with a baby, huh? I guess that's why they say life changes drastically!! I will admit to something though - we received it yesterday but I had no plans so it was a no make-up air dry my hair kind of day. So I waited until church this morning to take the photo - had to look at least a little better!! Thank you guys so much, I love it!
Thursday, October 28, 2010
I've Been a Slacker!
We started getting to work on the nursery once we found out what we were having. In one weekend, I bought the crib / changing table, registered at Babies R Us, picked out and bought the bedding, and started laying the hardwood floors. Picking out the bedding was a hard choice, because little boy stuff just isn't as cute as little girl stuff! But we chose a red white and blue little aviator theme - patriotic airplanes, so fits his daddy! And we'll paint clouds on our sky blue walls and Randy will even make a few model airplanes to hang. It's getting so exciting. Our next doctor's appointment is November 16th for the 24 week appointment.
As far as how I am feeling, I am about 120% better! The morning sickness is gone, I'm not very tired, and I just feel normal. The only thing plaguing me is heartburn, and it's torture! I have discovered I can take Zantac, but I think my body is finding a way to get around that. I had some heartburn before getting pregnant, so I'm getting used to it. We also get another ultrasound at the 24 week appointment so they can see some extra detail. Here is a photo of him at 20 weeks - it's a back view and you can see his spine in detail, very neat!
Tuesday, August 3, 2010
9 Weeks
The baby is now an inch long! It's amazing at how soon it goes from microscopic to now. It is about the size of a grape. All the essential body parts are there, even if tiny. His teeth are starting to form, and the heart now has four chambers. The eyes are formed, but the eyelids remain shut until about 27 weeks. The sex organs are forming, but won't be distinguishable for a while! The best part is the placenta is just about fully developed (between 9 and 10 weeks) and should take over hormone production soon. Thank heavens!
If anyone is wondering why I use "he" - I just have a feeling! I just know it's going to be a little boy :) We'll find out in about 11 weeks! Also, the doctor took me off estrogen patches and I had nausea relief for about 2 days. I didn't get sick at all, it was fantastic. And yesterday, my body caught back up to the missing estrogen. So still nauseous - had my hopes up too soon! I'll give another update this coming Friday.
Everyone keep praying!
Monday, July 26, 2010
Long Overdue!
The head is to the right of the arm/leg buds |
Ok, so I have been REALLY bad at writing. So much has happened since that positive, I just haven't had time. Things have been a roller coaster since then. First we found out it was twins at 5w4d. We were super excited, but super scared. Then at 6w6d I developed a massive blood clot and lost one of the babies. It was a horrifying and painful experience. The silver lining was the other baby was ok, but I had to stay bed rested until the clot cleared itself up. So, I am now 8w3d and still on bed rest until this Friday when I'll be 9 weeks. So now that our roller coaster has been told, time for the good stuff...
I am SOOO nauseous! It started at 5w5d and hasn't let up since then. I was hoping I'd inherit the gracious good luck of my mother and not be nauseous at all during pregnancy. Instead, I think God let it skip a generation, and let her lack of nausea make up itself in me. The doctor gave me a Rx for Zofran, which is fantastic. It stopped the wake up in the morning till you go to bed sickness, but I'll still get sick at some point during the day. I actually lost some weight the first couple of weeks due to not being able to eat much. And I'm still limited on what I can eat, because certain smells trigger that run to the toilet feeling. Randy and I even switched sides of the bed so I can be closer to the bathroom! Good thing to, because I think my minimum bathroom runs at night is around 3-4 - so lack of sleep is also included!
I have a few more unsavory side effects that I won't describe! But you can look up early preggo symptoms and get the gist! So far, things are going well. The baby is starting to look more baby like and less sea monsterish. He is about 3/4 of an inch long. The eyelids are forming, the nose is starting to form, and the ears are developing inside and out. The heart has divided into chambers. Elbows and knees have started to form and the arms and legs are growing longer!! The fingers and toes are webbed, but beginning to take shape. By week 10, we'll leave the embryonic phase and hit the fetus phase. In the picture you can see the head is to the right, with the arm/leg buds to the left on the bottom. It's amazing. We are so excited!
Saturday, June 26, 2010
It's POSITIVE
Our next step is another beta on Tuesday, 6/29. They want the number to double every 2 days, or every 48-72 hours is ok. They will do a couple of betas and then schedule an ultrasound around 7 weeks. I am currently 4 weeks pregnant. So lets pray that everything continues to go well!
I would like to start writing about each week, where the baby is and what is happening with me, but I am afraid to jinx it! I will say that the morning sickness has started! The first 2 times it was when I was hungry and didn't eat quick enough. But last night I was reading a wave of nausea hit me, I had to put the book down and lay down. The fun has began! I've never been so excited to get sick in my life!
One more non-jinxing moment hopefully - the due date will be around March 3, 2011. :)
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Transfer Day
Friday, June 11, 2010
Quick FET Update
Thursday, June 3, 2010
To 1 or to 3
Babydust!!
Monday, May 24, 2010
Here We Go Again
We started shots again yesterday, 5/23. We are on short protocol Ganirelix, and when this cycle starts about 5 days later I'll start my intramuscular shots again. This time I have both Estrogen and Progesterone. The tentative schedule is the transfer will be around June 15th, with the beta test 10 days later. I do have a lot more to say, but not enough time to say it in. I think this entire process is just wearing on me - I'm sick of needles!
Monday, May 17, 2010
Bad Day Turned Great
Today started out slightly miserably. I decided to check Aetna and see if my medication for our next round of FET IVF (Frozen Embryo Transfer) had posted yet. It had. I expected it to be less than previous, because I needed no stimulants with this being a frozen cycle. It was slightly less, but not much. It was over double what I had been expecting! After that initial shock, I then noticed the Estrogen Injection. Last time I was able to take a pill, but I am guessing due to the failure of the first IVF they have decided to up the ante. So then I just lost it - I was emotionally terrified of doing this second round, now it was more injections with lots more money. Something has to give!
I started looking closer and didn't see any location where the prescriptions were coming out of my flexible spending so I called Aetna. I apparently have an out-of-pocket max on RX each year at $1000. I have apparently met it, so all my prescriptions for the rest of the year are covered at 100%!! So all of these fertility meds are free instead of 1200!! Also with my plan, there is no cap on fertility drug coverage, and there usually is. So instead of this round of FET costing around 1000+ it will be around 500 max! How fantastic is that? It just released some of the worry over the success of this next round. If it fails again, it will be much easier to turn around, hold my head up and try again.
Great day!!
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
An Article That Needs Reading
Infertility: I Wish Someone Would Have Told Me
By Ryan Jacobson, Contributing Writer
Five years into our marriage and still no children. We had tried it all -- test after test, doctor after doctor, procedure after procedure. Every "specialist" to whom we were referred claimed to have the solution, yet nothing worked. No one knew what was wrong with us physically. Worse still, no one knew what was wrong with us emotionally -- not even we did.
A Death In The Family
Grief is the most selfish of all emotions, and infertility is grief -- a grief that no one else quite understands. In fact, most people don't have a clue.
When you are suffering through infertility, every day that you awaken NOT PREGNANT opens a new wound. It's another death in the family. Yes, the pain can be that significant. Every minute of every day is spent mourning the loss of a child -- your child.
They say that time heals all wounds, but not this one. Time is your enemy. Every day is another funeral, another failure.
At least, that's how my wife and I felt.
I Am Alone
If you've ever experienced the loss of a loved one, you might have a frame of reference for what I am describing. That's not to belittle the grief associated with death, nor is it to say that the feelings are one and the same. They aren't. But they do share the emotional exhaustion, the intensity of pain and the complete isolation. You are alone and helpless. Even your spouse, your partner, your love, your rock --they are absent; they cannot be there because their daily heartbreak isolates them, too.
Infertility is death, but with this tragedy there is no funeral. There is no gathering of friends and family. There is no closure. And as so often is the case, when you need your support system most, you haven't the strength to ask for help. No one will take care of you because they do not know they are needed.
You break all ties, further isolating yourself. You can't go out because -- heaven forbid -- you may see someone pregnant or with a young child. You start skipping birthday parties. Family reunions are out of the question because Cousin Martha has a baby on the way. Getting together "just to hang out" is no fun because they don't understand. (And who wants to be with a bunch of happy people anyway?) If you're religious, you might even start asking yourself, "Can I love a God who will not give me a child?"
You're left without the energy or the will to so much as dial a telephone. Your loved ones begin to wonder, "What's their problem?" Soon you become a punch line. "What do you think their excuse will be this time?" And then you realize that your support system is gone. Now, even if you mustered the courage to reach out, to ask for help, there would be no one left to answer.
What Should I Do?
I decided to write about infertility because you need to know. If you are struggling with infertility issues, recognize your grief. Acknowledge it. Then send this page to everyone you know. That's all you have to do for now. Your loved ones will take care of the rest.
How Can I Help Someone I Love?
If you know someone who is having difficulty starting a family, understand that they need you. I can't tell you what they need, except to know that you are there for them unconditionally. Your relationship will likely be a little bumpy for a while. Heck, it might be a lot bumpy. You must take it upon yourself to single-handedly keep the relationship alive. Touch base often, and make time to hang out (even if you have to drag them, kicking and screaming the whole way). If you have kids, leave them at home -- your joy is their heartbreak. And realize that quality, one-on-one time is far better than big, blowout parties.
Resist that natural human tendency to "keep score." It doesn't matter if you've called them 10 times in row and they haven't reciprocated. They probably don't have the strength. Like I mentioned before, you're entering a stretch of time in which you may have to do all of the work. Hopefully, the day will never come when it's their turn to do the same. But if it does, you can bet they'll be there for you.
At least once a week, you also need to ask specifically about their infertility and how things are going. I know: "Infertility" is a scary word to vocalize, but do it anyway. Maybe they won't want to talk about it. Respect that. But maybe they need to vent. Listen and be supportive; that alone will go a long way.
Finally, I want to encourage you to be persistent. This isn't a grief that gets easier with time. It gets harder. The longer they go through this, the more painful it will become and the more they will need you....
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
Monday, March 8, 2010
Why We Share
"Why or why not do you choose to share your infertility struggles with others?"
I've been meaning to write about this topic for a while. It seems to be an insignificant aside to infertility as a whole, but when one phone call can make your life hit a brick wall, it is a huge decision. Infertility is a very emotional, invasive, and private matter. Lots of people choose to deal with it alone as a couple, deal with it with a close group of people, or like me, share it with anyone interested. I thought I would share my reasons for writing this blog in order to help any others who may one day be where we are.
1. Prayer. Pure and simple. We believe in the power of prayer, and we have seen it work in our live and others. We have seen God do what we thought was impossible. Our entire relationship has been God driven - from Randy's activation, to my getting a job in Baton Rouge and Randy transferring to LSU. I've written a previous post when Randy graduated that highlighted all those blessings (May 2009, Moving Mountains.) The more people who are praying for us, the better.
2. Understanding. I am normally a very open person with anything that is going on, so I don't hide emotions well. When I am upset, everyone and their mother can tell. I knew this journey would be no different, actually much worse. I have isolated myself from friends at times because it was the only way to keep myself together at the seams. If my friends didn't know, they would not have understood and could have taken as a slight. By telling them, they were able to help me when I needed it, and grant me understanding when I needed that. By knowing, people understand when I avoid baby showers or events that will only intensify my pain.
3. Prevention. The worst feeling in the beginning was when people didn't know. We had been trying for a year before we knew anything was wrong, and comments like "When are you going to have kids?" "You're not getting any younger" "God made marriage for children, so you shouldn't wait" hurt then. And yes, that last one was a sermon from our pastor one day. I was ready to storm the stage, but his 6'4" football player frame still scared me away. People didn't know we were trying, so when I started to worry if something was wrong, those comments hurt. They are more torturous now, but much less in number. By sharing with most people I know, they avoid small talk comments that to most sound innocent, but to someone in our situation will rip your heart out.
4. Witnessing. I started the blog to keep family and friends up to date. Also it was a way for me to vent feelings and chronicle the journey. I have heard from a few people that are starting the same journey that it has been helpful and great for them to read. And even just an encouragement for others. I never intended, or even thought of it that way, but it is encouraging to know it has been helpful. I can be a witness/support to others experiencing the pain and heartbreak that can only be understood by a mom without a child.
I am not saying that this is the way to go for everyone. I've always been an open book, so it was natural for me. I wanted to give my reasons for sharing my journey for anyone that has ever wondered why… or may even be struggling with this question themselves.
Friday, March 5, 2010
Bitterness of Soul
"As month after month, then year after year, passed without the blessing of a living child in our home, my soul learned the foul taste of bitterness. My angry, festering heart ached constantly. That Hannah "wept much" seems to be a terribly inadequate description for the torrent of tears that accompanied me through years of longing and loss." - Jennifer Saake, Hannah's Hope
Unfortunately bitterness is an emotion that always parallels infertility trials. Months and years of trying to conceive accompanied by the emotional roller coaster of hopes rising only to be crushed. Procedures get more expensive, more invasive, more painful. For others, adoption failures also gather in emotional and financial expense. Yet all around us, there are reminders of what we don't have. Families and motherhood are such a normal, inescapable part of life, you don't realize the constant burn of these daily reminders until you've dealt with infertility. The worst is that I long to be normal. To celebrate pregnancies and births with people I care about. But their joy only deepens my pain. It then further causes me to distance myself from those that I need the most.
Then you can add the normal events of life to the feeling of "why me?" I fight the daily bitter anger toward people I feel don't deserve the blessing of motherhood. The relative who is unmarried and a drug addict. The teenager that doesn't want an inconvienince, so she aborts her child. These seemingly unfair situations cause pain so deep I've cried out resentfully to God in my anger.
How do I deal with this bitterness? I need to turn it over to God. And I am trying, but it is a daily struggle. I've been thinking of the blessings I've been given, and trying to see lives from others' shoes. The women who don't have the love of someone like Randy, that don't know Christ - maybe God is using children to bring them to Him. Maybe the child will be the blessing that turns their lives around. We all have these feelings of anger sometimes. I just feel I need help in trying to overcome it. I need the help of you - my friends and family who care about me and are reading this blog. I don't want this pain to rule my life. I don't think it will heal completely anytime soon, but with God's help - and the help of you - I want to learn to manage it. I think this pain will always be part of me, but it's not going to define me.
Thursday, February 25, 2010
Follow Up Appointment
I went in for our follow up appointment today. I managed to not cry at all, so I think it was a huge success! When Dr. Dunaway first walked in, he was shaking his head saying he had no reason, no excuse. Everything went beyond textbook. He even told me that of the entire IVF group in that cycle, he expected me to be the one pregnant with twins, and I ended up being the only one not pregnant. I know he didn't mean it bad, it was just true, but it was just another blow to my ego. More like, what in the world is wrong with me then? Even with perfect appearing embryos, they can still be genetically unviable. So they probably just picked the 2 that weren't right. The other doctors and even the embryologist had no idea what happened. Even having 12 grade 4 embryos to freeze is way above average and not normal at all. So we have no idea. We just hope there isn't something else wrong with me that hasn't been found yet.
So maybe May, more likely June, we'll try again. More shots, but not near as many. And the costs will be significantly less. So hopefully the spring will go well, and we will be optimistic and ready to go again in June. He even told us to be just as optimistic for the frozen transfer as the fresh, because we will get pregnant. I'm not going to lie, optimism during that 2 week wait is just about impossible. You have nothing to think about but "did it work?" I keep telling myself it's in God's hands and there are reasons for everything - but you reach the point where it is only hollow words. I am trying to keep my faith, but it's shattered at the moment. And it's still raining so hard I can no longer hear Him through this storm.
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
Monday, February 22, 2010
The Next Step
Hannah was the childless woman how wasn't just sad, she was desperate for a child. She lived for years in this desperation.
8)And Elkanah, her husband, said to her, "Hannah, why do you weep? And why do you not eat? And why is your heart sad?(H) Am I not more to you than ten sons?" 9) After they had eaten and drunk in Shiloh, Hannah stood up.
She had the strength to continue on. In her pain and desperation for a child, she kept her faith. She stood up when our legs feel broken. She then cried out to the Lord in such an impassioned cry the priest thought she was drunk. She prayed her heartache, her grief, her torture and gave her desire and burden to God. And the best part? He heard her cry and eventually answered her prayer.
Hannah is my reminder that even when I feel that God isn't listening, He has plan for us and He does hear my cry.
Thursday, February 18, 2010
Sunday, February 14, 2010
Thursday, February 11, 2010
Some Early Good News
12!! That is fantastic! It means all 14 that were looking perfect at
day 3 made it to the blastocysts stage - and actually a day past to
make it to the preservation stage. And even better news - I'll
probably never have to do the first phase of this again. You know, the
massive pain part of it. So even if t works, when we want more
children we just do thaw and do another transfer.
Such a blessing!
Wednesday, February 10, 2010
Torture!
STAND this for 8 more days!! Any suggestions for ways to take my mind
off this?!
Tuesday, February 9, 2010
Now the Wait Begins
Monday, February 8, 2010
Day 3 Results - Looking Great!
9 - 8 cell grade 4 embryos
5 - 8 cell grade 3 embryos
3 - 6 cell and 5 cell embryos
Looking results up online, it sounds like FINO's grading is reversed. The nurse told me that grade 3 and 4 are the embryos that "make the babies". So we have 14 high quality embryos as of day 3. We will transfer on day 5 when they are in the blastocyst state. This helps give an even better assessment of embryo quality - and in the end results in a higher rate of pregnancy. We are able to do this because had so many high quality embryos. It also puts the embryo where it should be on day 5, as opposed to a day 3 transfer where the embryo in a natural pregnancy hasn't traveled that far yet! So tomorrow morning at 8 is our embryo transfer, and things look good so far. Just continue to pray for good development and for everything to go perfectly tomorrow! Let's hope tomorrow is finally our day!
Friday, February 5, 2010
Yay!
to DNA problems) but 17 to start with is fantastic! Hopefully we'll
get plenty of grade A embryos and not ever have to do this first part
again. It's not pleasant at all. Keep praying!
Thursday, February 4, 2010
We've Topped the Hill
Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Pain, Pain and More Pain
So everything is going great! The two nurses said I am responding fantastic to IVF, which is expected due to age and issues. Ok, the bad news - the day of the aspiration, I have to start taking an intramuscular injection for progesterone. It's an oil going into the muscle, so it's THICK needle. I about stroked. I spoke with Dow's Medical department, and they can give it to me during the week. And I've asked my Sunday School teacher Lenna (a retired nurse!) to at least start us on the weekend and maybe show Randy how. After seeing the needle though, I love my husband dearly, but I am not sure if I want him coming at me with that thing. It's huge! So we'll see what happens. The funny thing is I have had 2 people say to me after telling them this "Well I bet Randy sure is relieved he might not have to do this!" My response? Randy?? If he messes it up it's an oops - but for me it's an OUCH! I think their sympathy might be sliiighlty misplaced, because I am sure the "this hurts me more than it does you" doesn't apply!
Saturday, January 30, 2010
Bad Day!
Saturday and Sunday. 3 needles, in roughly the same area, horrible
day. I am already miserable from the bloating pain in my abdomen,
that everything else just irritates it more. All 3 shots caused
bleading for the first time, one needle WOULD NOT break skin (had to
change syringes) and the last one IRRITATED the injection site.
Itches, burned, and hurt like everything!! Luckily, I had no bad
reactions to the ganirelex (the lupron replacement). I am just ready
to be finished with this part, I feel completely miserable! And I
know Randy is freaking out with the shots - blood, didn't break skin,
and trying to find a tummy location without bruises. I really hope we
don't have to do this again. And if it works, when the child is a
teenager, I will forcefully remind them of the expensive torture we
endured to have them! :)
Thursday, January 28, 2010
First Ultrasound Check Up, Day 7
I went to the doctor today for my first ultrasound on stimulants. I was nervous but I think it's just because I've come to expect the worst! I knew the medicine was doing its job, because I can feel it working. I know exactly where my ovaries are! It's a weird tugging, tingling, twitching feeling with a lot of pressure. If I could just unbutton my pants and walk around like that all day, it would be fantastic! But according to the nurse/ultrasound tech, I am developing really well. I have 5-8 clear follicles per ovary after 3 days, and one is already 12mm. The nurse thinks they will go ahead and put me on the LH surge suppressant to keep me from ovulating. I will know when they call me this afternoon. The way the office works, is we all do our ultrasounds and blood work in the morning, and once results are in, the doctors all together review the results and agree on guidance each day. It is really kind of neat, having multiple opinions instead of one. So so far so good!!
Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Tentative Schedule
We started stimulants yesterday. The Gonal-F comes in pre-filled pens with multiple doses. You click it to your prescribed dose, and pull the end all the way out. Well long story short, Randy didn't click it all the way down the first time, so we only had a partial dose. So he had to stick me again. We definitely love each other for having to go through all this!
Here is the tentative schedule thus far. We are now doing the stimulants and doctor visits where they monitor the follicle development. And sometime between Monday, 2/1 and Thursday, 2/4 they will do the egg retrieval in Metairie. Luckily I will be "consciously sedated" because I don't want to remember it. Then 4 days later normally, Thursday 2/4 through Sunday 2/7, they will but the embryos back in. I have to be bed rested for at least 2 days afterwards. The nurse explained it as "once they put those little embryos back, they don't want them going anywhere!" And I do agree with her logic! So only allowed to get up for restroom breaks - I am sure Randy is looking forward to that part of it!
There will be dosage changes, and different injections added at some point, but I won't know all of that until it happens. It all depends on follicle development and how blood work looks. But it looks like around February 15th is when we will know if it was successful or not.
Keep Praying!!!!
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
We may be in the clear...
them had ever seen this reaction, but they of course don't want to
risk it. And I am glad being that I found a blog on a woman who Lupron
actually caused her to have a stroke. We get to continue with this
cycle, and use an alternative medicine (can't spell it yet, I've only
heard it once!) But I will call at the start of this cycle, and start
my stims (Gonal-F) 4 days later. And then a couple of days after that
I start this new suppressant. So let's pray that it was just Lupron
and I am NOT allergic to this new stuff! Without it, I can't do IVF.
It would be horrid to make it this far just to find that out. Being
me, I'd probably tough it out and not tell anyone! (and yes, I'm
waiting on the reprimands from all the moms out there...)
Sunday, January 17, 2010
When Things Are Going Well, It Never Fails
call my doctor first thing Monday. So will this stop this cycle? I don't know. Is there an alternative? I don't know. Will this be no big deal, or could it prevent us from doing IVF all together? I don't know. Please start praying.
Friday, January 15, 2010
Randy Did Well!
Let the Prayers Begin!
Now let's let the injections and prayers begin!...
Friday, January 8, 2010
No Needles Today
So now I just have ANOTHER week to terrify myself once again. Think happy thoughts...